Tzu San Niang

Une petite demande qui ne concerne pas que cette carte, elle sert juste d'exemple :

Tzu San Niang
Like A Ghost
Type: Character Faction: Neutral
Cost: 3
Icon: (C)(C)(A) Skill: 3
Servitor.
Forced Response: When you succeed at a story to which Tzu San Niang is comitted, return all characters committed to that story to their owners' hands.
"No. Sorry. All I remember seeing was the parasol... the color of fresh spilled blood."

Est-ce que le "succeed" signifie que l'on gagne l'histoire ou que l'on remporte une lutte d'icônes. Et dans ce second cas, quelle(s) lutte(s)?

Merci par avance.

Sucdeed veut dire que tu gagnes le skill en tant qu'attaquant.

Merci beaucoup!!

Du coup elle est pas mal du tout cette carte!!

B_P a écrit:Sucdeed veut dire que tu gagnes le skill en tant qu'attaquant.

Are you only considered to have succeeded if you are the attacker?
This was a question that came up in Stahleck (which I also sent to Damon but didn't receive a reply to, yet). We didn't find a definite section in the rules: All it seems to say is that you only get to place a success token if you succeed as the active player. So while the defending player doesn't get to place a token he might still be considered to have succeeded:

Note also that only the active player may place a success token for
being successful at a story. If the non-active player has the most
total skill at this story, nothing happens.

Jhaelen a écrit:

B_P a écrit:Sucdeed veut dire que tu gagnes le skill en tant qu'attaquant.

Are you only considered to have succeeded if you are the attacker?
This was a question that came up in Stahleck (which I also sent to Damon but didn't receive a reply to, yet). We didn't find a definite section in the rules: All it seems to say is that you only get to place a success token if you succeed as the active player. So while the defending player doesn't get to place a token he might still be considered to have succeeded:

Note also that only the active player may place a success token for
being successful at a story. If the non-active player has the most
total skill at this story, nothing happens.

Really good question!! There are 2 possibilities :

_ only the offensive one can succeed to a story (he's the only who can put a token by the skill)
_ the defensive can "win" the "skill fighting" without putting token, but is this a success?

Cornelian's choice ^^

"""After the four icon struggles, the active player determines if he has
been successful at the story. """ (Rules, p. 10)

Only the active player does so. Hence, it is not possible for his opponent to succeed.

mzi a écrit:"""After the four icon struggles, the active player determines if he has
been successful at the story. """ (Rules, p. 10)

Only the active player does so. Hence, it is not possible for his opponent to succeed.

tout simplement, merci Mzi ^^

mzi a écrit:"""After the four icon struggles, the active player determines if he has
been successful at the story. """ (Rules, p. 10)

Only the active player does so. Hence, it is not possible for his opponent to succeed.

Then why is there the following sentence?

Note also that only the active player may place a success token for being successful at a story.

If it was impossible for the defending player to be successful, the sentence would be redundant. Reversing the sentence give us this: "Note also that the defending player may not place a success token for being successful at a story."

It's not as clear cut as you'd like it to be. Hence I sent the question to Damon.

Jhaelen a écrit:Then why is there the following sentence?

Note also that only the active player may place a success token for being successful at a story.

If it was impossible for the defending player to be successful, the sentence would be redundant.

One cannot assume that the rules are never redundant. In this case, it is obvious that they are, esp. if you take into account that the sentence begins by _Note_, which introduces a clarification rather that an elaboration.

mzi a écrit:One cannot assume that the rules are never redundant. In this case, it is obvious that they are, esp. if you take into account that the sentence begins by _Note_, which introduces a clarification rather that an elaboration.

One also cannot assume that a rule is redundant simply because it's saying something similar to a different part of the rules. Of course no rules are perfect, the CoC rules particularly aren't.
'Obvious', however is a dangerous word. If it was obvious, it would also be obvious to me, which it isn't. So, it obviously isn't obvious

Further evidence that it isn't obvious: I managed to convince the players at Stahleck that defending players can succeed at stories. So either my interpretation is obviously correct or it's simply that I can be pretty convincing if I put my mind to it

Anyway, I posted the question again so I don't have to rely on rethoric to defend my position

I managed to convince the players at Stahleck

You have a good mind control

I'm pretty sure of the answer of mzi, but i'm waiting for Damon's answer.

Yes, wait & see.

PS: ca me rappelle quand, à Hell Dorado, les règles étaient devenues un tel foutoir qu'il était impossible de déterminer si certaines actions étaient des marches ou des courses...

C'est bien ça, le « you succeed at a story » ne s’applique qu’au joueur actif. Obtenir un succès sur une histoire c'est poser au moins un token sur l'histoire et le joueur défenseur ne place jamais de token s'il remporte la comparaison de skill (il ne se passe rien).

p.10 rules :
Determine Success
After the four icon struggles, the active player determines if he has been successful at the story.

Note also that only the active player may place a success token for being successful at a story. If the non-active player has the most total skill at this story, nothing happens.

Tu ne vas pas jouer un Endless Interrogation (The Thing From the Shore F82) en tant que défenseur sous prétexte que ton adversaire n’a pas placé de marqueurs de succès suite à la comparaison des valeurs de compétences.

Le "Note also that only the active player may place a success token for being successful at a story" c'est pour rappeler que contrairement à la lutte d'investigation où le joueur actif ou bien le joueur non-actif peuvent placer 1 marqueur de succès, dans le cas de la comparaison des compétences, seul le joueur actif peut placer 1 token.