Cthulhu Deck Builder version 2.0.8 (Edition finale) dispo !

Merci pour la récapitulation, Fred

J'ai relancé Robert pour avoir des nouvelles...

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Nyarla

au pire on peut peut etre utiliser les scan de cardgamedb ?
http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/CoC/CoCCards.html/_/ancient-relics/the-shifting-sands/canopic-jar-tss

ca donnerait ca apres un petit coup de reduction, par contre je ne peux pas avoir exactement la meme taille que les autres cartes car elles ne sont pas scannées avec le bord blanc


je peux faire un zip avec toutes les images pour demain ...merci de me confirmer

Merci Kriss, mais c'est inutile.

Je suis déjà en contact avec le webmaster de CardGameDB pour les cartes LOTR, mais je voudrais éviter de trop le solliciter.

Ceci dit, j'ai déjà saisi toutes les cartes. Je peux donc faire une release sans mise à jour des packs d'image dans un premier temps, si ça vous suffit...

Attendons quand même 1-2 jours que Robert puisse me dire s'il a des scans de dispo

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Nyarla

même sans les images ce serait bien sympa en effet
Merci de ta réactivité

Tu ne joue toujours pas à ce jeu au fait ?

Today I was notified that both 'The Shifting Sands' and 'Kingsport' will become available within the next few days.

Does anyone already have them? The online shop where I'm ordering is usually very quick. Personally, I don't think cards should be added to the DeckBuilder before they're available to everyone.

In fact we use deckbuilder to play online too (lackey freeware)
So it's more easy to have thoses cards in deckbuilder and build new decks

kriss a écrit:In fact we use deckbuilder to play online too (lackey freeware)
So it's more easy to have thoses cards in deckbuilder and build new decks

Actually, that's precisely why I wouldn't recommend to include cards that aren't yet available. I'd hate to see FFG decide to make a move against the deckbuilder over such an issue (or for any reason at all).

I've been thinking for a long time that the DeckBuilder is precisely the kind of software that FFG might want to sell themselves to support their LCG games. It's ideal since it's almost a must-have for anyone playing the game more than casually yet still requires players to buy the cards for actually playing.

Lackey, on the other hand is exactly the kind of software FFG should be most interested in shooting down. Unless they have a clever business model like WotC with their Magic Online software it would eventually cause them to lose money should it become a more popular way to play CoC.

But maybe that's just my opinion...

I had a similar talk on ffg forum and lot of player thinks like me :
- without opponent you don't play
- you don't play so you don't buy card
- you give up and sell your cards to play another game (thats the scheme i see since i know Cthulhu LCG)

If you don't want to pay to have cards, just go to http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/CoC/cocdeckbuilder.html
But if you like this game and want to play with friends, so you'll buy cards and want to support it.
in both case , without opponent it's useless ! so play online is the only way to grow up the community and I don't understand how the company can lose money if there are more players interesting about the game !

Actually, that's precisely why I wouldn't recommend to include cards that aren't yet available

So i don't think it will be better to not include new cards

Jhaelen a écrit:Today I was notified that both 'The Shifting Sands' and 'Kingsport' will become available within the next few days.

Does anyone already have them? The online shop where I'm ordering is usually very quick. Personally, I don't think cards should be added to the DeckBuilder before they're available to everyone.

Nyarla now receives scans from a US player who just buys the card when they are available in US. If we should have to wait to be sure that any player interested in playing online has access to the new AP before updating DB and lackey, it would take muuuuch longer time between two updates, then DB and lackey would become less used and that's probably not what we want. Indeed, when the CoC plug-in for lackey was not updated regularly (before Sadric started to do the job), I completely stopped using it, because you want to be able to use newest cards with it. Lackey is a very good way to playtest new decks ideas quickly and easily when new cards are just arriving.

I know FFG is able to make DB or lackey shut down for CoC. So let's just be careful not giving too many visibility to them.

Hello guys,

I got a mail from Robert who just the Kingsport Dreams pack and is waiting for his Shifting Sands in the next few days.
The cards spoiled on CardGameDB probably came from a pack borrowed during Gencon, long before the pack becomes actually available in shops. It seems to start shipping now, so we'll get them soon in the DeckBuilder

en français :

J'ai reçu un message de Robert qui vient de récupérer son pack Kingsport Dreams et qui attend le pack Shifting Sands dans les jours à venir. Les cartes dévoilées sur CardGameDB venaient probablement d'un pack récupéré durant la Gencon, bien avant que le pack soit réellement disponible en boutiques. Il semble qu'il commence à être livré maintenant, nous les aurons donc bientôt dans le DeckBuilder

Comme disait un fameux magicien dans un autre univers : Have patience !

Cool

kriss a écrit:I had a similar talk on ffg forum and lot of player thinks like me :
- without opponent you don't play
- you don't play so you don't buy card
- you give up and sell your cards to play another game (thats the scheme i see since i know Cthulhu LCG)

Well, kriss, I think you are very enthusiastic about CoC, so I understand your desire to help 'spread the gospel'. However, on the FFG CoC forums you are just 'preaching to the converted'.

Things aren't as simple as you portrait it. Imho, the players who think playing CoC via Lackey is a good way to promote the game haven't thought this through and are guided by what they hope rather than what is reasonable or likely.

I've had quite a few discussions about related topics, and so far I've not seen any convincing evidence that providing a means for unrestricted, free, and easily accessible online play does anything to increase sales of the boardgame or cardgame that the online version is based on.

First, there's a simple truth: If something is available for free, people generally aren't willing to pay for it, unless they gain something above and beyond the free offer.

Now, let's consider a few similar areas:
- Do you think that the availability of DVDs has helped to increase the sales of cinema tickets?
- Do you think that the availability of ripped DVDs has helped to increase sales of DVDs?
- Do you think that the availability of pirated mp3s has helped to increase sales of music CDs?
- Do you think that the availability of scanned pdfs has helped to increase sales of books?
- Do you think that the availability of MMORPGs has helped to increase sales of tabletop rpgs?

Imho, the best you can hope for is that an online offer will not affect sales negatively, but it definitely will not increase sales.

Consider free trial versions for software: There's several approaches that work. Usually, the trial software is _restricted_ in some way, e.g. it doesn't include the full functionality, it only works for a limited time period or it lacks some other desirable feature that you only get when getting the full product version.
It could also be that the free software is less _accessible_, i.e. it's less user-friendly, requires more work or is more difficult to use. People _are_ willing to pay for something that is more convenient to use.

Maybe Nyarlazobec also has some data that might be relevant for this topic:
How many people download and use the DeckBuilder compared to the number of people that donate money?

Sometimes, new software products are also made available for free with unrestricted functionality in the hope to reach a wider audience and become well known. However, this is basically just the first stage in the sales strategy, like an 'open beta'. Once the software is used by a lot of people, the free version is pulled and replaced by a new version of the software that must be paid for.

That's, imho, the best you can hope for something like Lackey to achieve: Generate interest in the game to such a degree that after shutting Lackey down, people will be willing to buy into a non-free version of the software or (somewhat less likely) actually buy the cards.

Next, let's consider the kinds of people that might be interested in buying CoC:
1. There's the collectors who mainly desire to own the cards because they appreciate the artwork and theme of the game. I'm actually partially in that category.
2. There's the avid, 'pro' CCG players who enjoy nothing more than playing CCGs competitively and are very interested to participate in tournaments.
3. There's the casual gamer couples who get interested in playing CoC, because it's a two-player LCG.
4. Then there's the rest of the casual gamers who meet with friends more or less regularly to share an evening playing board or card games. I'm also part of this group, e.g. I've bought 'Arkham Horror' and all of its expansions, because in my circle of friends we play it regularly. But guess, how many of them (we're ten persons) decided to buy the game themselves? None. They like the game a lot, but if they want to play it, they ask me to come over or borrow the game. I also introduced several of them to CoC. Reactions were mixed, but no one decided to start buying cards for it. Even the most enthusiastic player wasn't interested because of the theme, instead he started buying into WH:I

I may have forgotten a category, but I think that mostly covers it. Now, how are these groups affected by Lackey and unrestricted, free online play?

Group 1 isn't affected at all. Whether they play the game via Lackey or not, they'll continue to buy the cards, because they enjoy collecting them.

Part of group 2 isn't affected either, because they need to buy the cards to play in tournaments. If they already own the cards, it might stop or delay them from selling the cards, though.
For another part, playing CoC via Lackey might actually win them over and get them to buy the cards. These players, however, are likely to give up a different CCG/LCG in favour of playing CoC. For FFG this might translate into increased sales (e.g. if they previously played a game by a competitor like MTG) or no net gain (if they previously played a different LCG from FFG like AGoT).

Group 3 isn't affected at all, since they're only interested in playing against each other at home.

Group 4 also isn't affected, unless they no longer have a chance to meet in person, e.g. because some of the move to a different city or country.

So, what kind of players do you think will be induced to _start_ buying the cards by playing via Lackey (except from a part of group 3)?

Imho, none. People playing via Lackey probably started using the software because they didn't find players in their area (or aren't interested in finding any). If they already have cards, they might as well sell them since they aren't required for online play. If they never had any, why should they start buying if they only know the players they're playing against online?

If they were really interested in playing face-to-face what they'd do is try to find players in their area by posting on internet forums.

I'm probably already starting to repeat myself and this post is already way too long, so to conclude it:
The best FFG can hope for Lackey to achieve is to stop players who are already invested in the game to cease buying cards. I.e. it might slow down or stabilize declining sales but it won't get them _more_ sales.

There is a point I hardly agree with. It's that playing CoC on Lackey or similar service is (just) playing CoC for free. That's the same cards, the same mechanisms but that's where it stops for me.

I've tried in the past to use these platforms, once for Cthulhu and a few other times for dead games. I've never played more than one game. Without the actual cards, with the burdening interface, the slowed-down interaction between players.. The difference in quality time and pleasure I take from it is enough for me to (a) not play Lackey at all and (b) consider it a shareware, better-than-no-players alternative.

But then, ethics aside, I'm not able to watch a 'filmed-in-a-theater' screener because of the very poor quality of the thing compared to the real deal. Given the sum of screeners available on the net for every movies, I guess it's not everyone's opinion.

I'm with Supa on the point that lackey does not deliver the same "service" as the real cards do.

However, I play online using lackey from time to time, and using Skype (or any other VOIP system) does greatly increase the comfort, because you just need to focus on the card management, no the typing/chatting anymore to add the necessary interaction. Finally lackey's ergonomy is acceptable. The only donwside (which almost vanishes when using VOIP) is the "qwerty-locked" configuration.

So I do both, buy all the cards (i'm probably in Group 1-2-3 and sometimes 4) AND use lackey. I prefer lackey to be as "up-to-date" as possible. At the moment, I build my decks directly in lackey because of some remaining compatability trouble (now maybe solved) between DB and lackey. I use DB for searching and filtering cards, finding new ideas. So it's good DB be up-to-date as well.

Hi guys, that's a very interesting discussion, though going off-topic for the Lackey/no-Lackey part.
Please, find an appropriate topic to debate this matter.

I will just answer to this, for your information:

Jhaelen a écrit:Maybe Nyarlazobec also has some data that might be relevant for this topic:
How many people download and use the DeckBuilder compared to the number of people that donate money?

I don't know exactly how many people actually use the software on a regular basis.
The download count of each version was about 300 one year ago and it dropped to 180~200 for the most recent ones.
The proportion of donators is not high, but not that bad. I will not complain : it is not my goal to make money with this

to continue talking about this subject : https://cenacle-hd.1fr1.net/t2230-internationaliser-les-championnats-onlines#26450

Merci

Les scans de Kingsport Dreams sont arrivés. Par contre, j'attendrai ceux de Shifting Sands pour sortir la version car je veux tout vérifier avant. Patience, ça sera pour la semaine prochaine maxi...

Tres bien , merci Nyarla

Des news Nyarla ?

nyarlazorbec a écrit:Merci

Les scans de Kingsport Dreams sont arrivés. Par contre, j'attendrai ceux de Shifting Sands pour sortir la version car je veux tout vérifier avant. Patience, ça sera pour la semaine prochaine maxi...

j'ai shifting sands depuis 10 jours... est-ce que finalement le plan scan de Rob le pote US est satisfaisant?

FredhoT a écrit:

nyarlazorbec a écrit:Merci

Les scans de Kingsport Dreams sont arrivés. Par contre, j'attendrai ceux de Shifting Sands pour sortir la version car je veux tout vérifier avant. Patience, ça sera pour la semaine prochaine maxi...

j'ai shifting sands depuis 10 jours... est-ce que finalement le plan scan de Rob le pote US est satisfaisant?

Damned ! En fait, il ne me les a pas envoyé encore. Si tu veux bien me les faire, ça fera avancer le schmilblick

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Merci , on s'habitue trop vite au deckbuilder: quand il n'y a pas les cartes c'est vite tendu

nyarlazorbec a écrit:

FredhoT a écrit:

nyarlazorbec a écrit:Merci

Les scans de Kingsport Dreams sont arrivés. Par contre, j'attendrai ceux de Shifting Sands pour sortir la version car je veux tout vérifier avant. Patience, ça sera pour la semaine prochaine maxi...

j'ai shifting sands depuis 10 jours... est-ce que finalement le plan scan de Rob le pote US est satisfaisant?

Damned ! En fait, il ne me les a pas envoyé encore. Si tu veux bien me les faire, ça fera avancer le schmilblick

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Mmmh, je les ai déjà rangées dans mes classeurs... mais, pour toi, qu'est-ce qu'on ne ferait pas... j'essaie de les scanner ce soir ou demain soir.

Merci

Salut,

Grâce à Fred, la mise à jour du DB va pouvoir se faire d'ici une paire de jours

A bientôt...

Nyarla

j'ai hate de dl la maj

il y aura donc la maj complete de forgotten lore + shifting sand ?

kriss a écrit:j'ai hate de dl la maj

il y aura donc la maj complete de forgotten lore + shifting sand ?

Je n'ai pas tout Forgotten Lore encore, ça ira jusqu'à Kingsport Dreams pour le moment...

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Nyarla

il te manque les images ou les textes ?

Les scans des cartes rééditées. Je reconstruis toujours les textes moi-même, les spoilers texte déjà publiés ne sont pas particulièrement précis...

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Ok je comprend